Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

theVati wrote:Can it handle 220V input ?

According to Amazon it is worldwide voltage compatible.

The ones on Amazon do not have the green line and they say they come pre-charged ready to use (see link above).

theVati wrote:Can it handle 220V input ?

A picture on the Kodak site: http://store.kodak.com/store/ekconsus/en_US/pd/4_Cell_Smart_Charger_SC4/productID.222955200 shows that the AC plug is a flip out style built into the plastic housing. It's a standard 120VAC plug, so I would guess it's not designed for multi-voltage support. Unless you have a half baked home brew adapter, I don't think 220VAC should be available on this style outlet.

[edit]Per the above comment, I see on Amazons web site that it is "Worldwide voltage compatible" [/edit]

I was hoping it had a wall wart input so I could plug it into a vehicle cigarette lighter / power port. No such luck.

jmbunkin wrote:If I buy two deals my wife will just roll her eyes a few times. If I buy three I will have get the old "we need to talk about ....." comment and that always scares me.

The deal is done,bought two. Let the eye rolling begin.

Tell your wife there is a difference between buying three lots of batteries and buying, say, three Roombas. If that doesn't work, ask how many pairs of shoes she has.

llthel wrote:Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

Hopefully Woot can confirm what they are because that would be an unfortunate surprise. Maybe it is merely the picture as in my opinion it would otherwise be misleading since the offer implies the are all the same and they are the LSD batteries.

I was going to pull the trigger but will hold off until more info is provided as to whether they are all the same or not.

agh19 wrote:Can these be used with a solar charger, like in a landscape light?

Sure can! The NiMH batteries charge at the same voltage as NiCD. When the OEM batteries in our solar lights die, I buy cheap NiMH batteries. Last longer, burn more hours....

Fantastic deal! Too bad most of my electronic stuff has a rechargeable battery embedded in it. Good thing I got one of these: http://amzn.com/B0067MFKXC

Hey techWoot!
Are all three sets the same, or not? One has clear sections on the charger door, the other two are completely frosted. The one with the clear sections has batteries with green stripes near the top; the other two do not.
Are ALL the batteries pre-charged, or just one of the three sets?
Thanks!

llthel wrote:Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

The 8 batteries with the red stripe and the Kodak logo reading from - to + match the product photos for the LSD NiMh batteries from Kodak's own site
http://store.kodak.com/store/ekconsus/en_US/pd/Ni-MH_Pre-Charged_Rechargeable_Batteries_AA/productID.158853000

I cannot find any images matching the 4 green band batteries with the logo reading from + to -.

Nesher wrote:Hey techWoot!
Are all three sets the same, or not? One has clear sections on the charger door, the other two are completely frosted.

I would imagine that the charger that "is not like the others"--i.e. with the unfrosted door is the 1hr fast charger (as it also matches Kodak's product photo http://store.kodak.com/store/ekconsus/en_US/pd/ThemeID.3925700/1_Hour_Smart_Charger_SC1HR/baseProductID.222954600/productID.222954700) and the other two--with the frosted doors--are the standard chargers.

So, at worst, its 8 LSD and 4 standard NiMh rechargables.

llthel said:
Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

Sorry for stepping on your post. My bad!

sdc100 wrote:From the description:


It's often debated whether Kodak's "pre-charged" batteries are Low Self-Discharged (LSD) batteries like Eneloops. If they are LSD, then this is a great deal. If they're just normal 2100mAh NiMH batteries, then the deal is just okay.

My guess is that they are LSD, since normal NiMH batteries don't stay charged on store shelves even if they've been pre-charged leaving the factory. They will be depleted within months.

But if they are LSD, then the feature which automatically charges the battery isn't very useful. In fact, you can argue that constant auto-recharging harms the battery.

I'm going to place my bet on these being LSD and order a bunch. I just need the batteries and not the charger since I already have a hi-tech LaCrosse charger and don't need/want auto-recharging.

What are you building there, Spock?

So Woot has resorted to selling LSD?

Kodak SC1HR charger manual: http://resources.kodak.com/support/pdf/en/manuals/accessories/1HrSmartCharger/1HrSmartChgrUG_en.pdf.
Kodak SC4 charger manual: http://resources.kodak.com/support/pdf/en/manuals/accessories/4CellSmartCharger/4CellSmartChgrUG_en.pdf.

Both the Kodak SC4 and the SC1HR chargers charges in pairs only (2 or 4 cells, not 1 or 3), and cannot charge AA and AAA at the same time -- no 2 AA + 2 AAA at the same time, only 2 AA, 2 AAA, 4 AA or 4 AAA. Both can handle 110~220VAC.

The Kodak SC4 is pretty slow (310mA for AA, 120mA for AAA) so it will take 7+ hours to charge fully discharged cells.

The Kodak SC1HR charges at 2.2A (2 AA, ~1 hour), 1.1A (4 AA, ~2 hours), 0.9A (2 AAA, ~1 hour), 0.45A (4 AAA, ~2 hours). At such high charge rates, the cells will get quite warm, especially if you charge only 1 pair. If you charge a pair of batteries with significant mismatched state of charge, such as one 2100mAh AA that has 30% charge left and one that is 70% full, the fuller cell will be overcharged. The excess charge will be turned into heat (since a cell can't hold much more than 100% and the energy has to end up somewhere) and cause some cell degradation, especially at such high charge rate.

That's why I prefer chargers with individual channels per cell instead of per pair. But for those who use batteries in pairs/fours and keep the cells paired (to avoid mismatched remaining capacity), these chargers will do OK, especially at this price.

I bought two of the Kodak Z990's when they were sold in mid July and they came with the rechargeable batteries that have the green stripe at the top. I charged them (because I didn't notice they were pre-charged) and put them in the camera the next day. I haven't used my camera much but it shows them full when I just turned on the camera.

My daughter used her camera and said the batteries worked well but once they ran down she couldn't get them to hold a charge. It could have been an issue with the outlet she used since she said it was a loose fit with the plug. I recharged them when she got home and they still show full but the camera hasn't been used except to upload over 200 pictures.

The battery has printed on it Kodak Pre-charged rechargeable battery Ni-MH <=2100hAh, Min.2000mAh AA HR6 1.2V. It also says made in China and on the negative end it has the picture of a trash can with an X through it and Europe.

mikepanic wrote:Any photographers using these in speedlights? Curious to know recycle time, shelf life and overall usage. The fact that it comes with 3 chargers is a huge plus too.

LSD batteries provide much more energy capacity than standard NiMH, even if they have lower capacities.

Here is a graph of batteries with their stated capacity and measured capacity in pulse discharge testing (as in charging a camera strobe):

The blue are regular NiMH, and red are LSD. The horizontal axis is the battery's stated capacities, and vertical axis is their measured capacity (ideally, all the dots should line up on the diagonal line):



Here is the same batteries' results in high drain application (3amp):



The whole test could be found in:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/best-batteries-for-strobes

The Kodak LSD batteries are also in the test. The Eneloop seems to be the only batteries in the test that are made in Japan.

llthel wrote:Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

Does everyone here have to be spoonfed? The description says pre-charged batteries. Which implies all of the batteries are LSD.

Hope they put this deal up with AAA batteries soon! My Turtle Beaches run through these like water, and for some reason, most of my high-use electronics take AAA instead of AA.

agilani01 wrote:Does everyone here have to be spoonfed? The description says pre-charged batteries. Which implies all of the batteries are LSD.

Yeah, and WOOT descriptions are NEVER wrong...EVER.

Not saying this one is wrong, but it is a legit question

ebear88 wrote:Yeah, and WOOT descriptions are NEVER wrong...EVER.

Not saying this one is wrong, but it is a legit question

Really? Are peope really that slow?

this includes two different chargers. Both come with precharged batteries that last up to a year.


Kodak SC1HR 1 Hour Smart Charger

Top-off feature maintains full a charge
Auto on/off saves electricity
Charges (2) or (4) AA Ni-MH batteries, or (2) or (4) AAA Ni-MH batteries
The included pre-charged batteries are ready to use out of the package and hold charge up to a year
Worldwide voltage compatible

Kodak 4 Cell Smart Charger SC4

Top-off feature maintains full a charge
Auto on/off saves electricity
Charges (2) or (4) AA batteries, or (2) or (4) AAA Ni-MH batteries
Includes pre-charged batteries that are ready to use
Worldwide voltage compatible

usagisailor wrote:Hope they put this deal up with AAA batteries soon! My Turtle Beaches run through these like water, and for some reason, most of my high-use electronics take AAA instead of AA.

I second that...but still in for a set.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to battery technology but how would these compare to lithium ion rechargables? Also, if these are first gen are the newer gen ones that much better?

llthel wrote:Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

You have good eyes for spotting the green bands/rings/stripes on the cells inside the Kodak SC1HR, versus the typical red banded cell inside the Kodak SC4, which many of us own and know are Kodak LSD 2100mAh cells.

Kodak has traditionally labeled their (only) AA LSD NiMH cells with yellow and red bands on white body.


Their non-LSD NiMH cells have been yellow and red bands on green body.


The yellow and green bands on white body is something we haven't seen before. Also note that the red "Kodak" logo is read from the (+) terminal on the green banded cells, which is another new design element.

It could just be a package redesign, a switch to a different supplier of LSD cells, or they're non-LSD cells. Judging from Wootalyzer's 12% inventory gauge, this deal will likely sell out before we find out.

agh19 wrote:Can these be used with a solar charger, like in a landscape light?

Yes, but there is no reason to use expensive LSD batteries when ordinary NiMH/NiCads would do just fine. Solar lights charge and discharge daily so there is no self-discharge to speak of since the batteries are never dormant. When there is light, they're being charged. When there is no light, they're being discharged by the LEDs. It wouldn't hurt to use LSD batteries such as these but it's a waste of money. You can get normal NiMH and NiCad batteries for less than $1 each.

An additional issue is that if your lights use NiCad batteries, replacing them with NiMH batteries may not be ideal. That's because NiCad chargers, especially those in cheap devices like solar lights, are basically dumb. Your NiMH batteries then will often end up under or overcharged.

See this article and this comprehensive Q&A.

Sorry, didn't realize the almighty would be slumming here. Thanks for your insightful comments and showing us your mad cut and paste skills, I'l send you a diploma.

I've been burned by "sloppy" woot descriptions in the past.

agilani01 wrote:Really? Are peope really that slow?

this includes two different chargers. Both come with precharged batteries that last up to a year.


Kodak SC1HR 1 Hour Smart Charger

Top-off feature maintains full a charge
Auto on/off saves electricity
Charges (2) or (4) AA Ni-MH batteries, or (2) or (4) AAA Ni-MH batteries
The included pre-charged batteries are ready to use out of the package and hold charge up to a year
Worldwide voltage compatible

Kodak 4 Cell Smart Charger SC4

Top-off feature maintains full a charge
Auto on/off saves electricity
Charges (2) or (4) AA batteries, or (2) or (4) AAA Ni-MH batteries
Includes pre-charged batteries that are ready to use
Worldwide voltage compatible

ambaker wrote:Sure can! The NiMH batteries charge at the same voltage as NiCD. When the OEM batteries in our solar lights die, I buy cheap NiMH batteries. Last longer, burn more hours....

Not always true, especially in "dumb" chargers like that in solar lights. The NiMH batteries may have better capacity but the solar charger was optimized for NiCad, and will probably constantly undercharge the NiMHs, risking damage. See this post on the topic, and check out the links.

lwang wrote:LSD batteries provide much more energy capacity than standard NiMH, even if they have lower capacities.

Here is a graph of batteries with their stated capacity and measured capacity in pulse discharge testing (as in charging a camera strobe):

The blue are regular NiMH, and red are LSD. The horizontal axis is the battery's stated capacities, and vertical axis is their measured capacity (ideally, all the dots should line up on the diagonal line):



Here is the same batteries' results in high drain application (3amp):



The whole test could be found in:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/best-batteries-for-strobes

The Kodak LSD batteries are also in the test. The Eneloop seems to be the only batteries in the test that are made in Japan.

Thanks for the graphs, and special appreciation for including the source links. I haven't read it yet but the graphs themselves contradict the experiences of most users. People with smart chargers like the LaCrosse or Maha PowerEx are able to measure actual capacity of NiMH batteries and an informal survey of discussion forums doesn't match the graphs. Many people report that their chargers report a real capacity that is higher than the labeled capacity. Are our LaCrosse and Maha chargers wrong?

As for NiZn cells, I find it interesting that they used cells that are labeled <2000mAh while all other test batteries are labeled >2000mAh. My NiZn AA batteries are rated at 2500mAh and I;ve never seen one labeled less than 2000mAh. Why the exception with NiZn batteries? And my experience with NiZn cells are that they last as least as long as normal NiMH cells so I'm wary of this article. But I'll definitely read it before I judge.

sdc100 wrote:They have the same usage profile as normal NiMH batteries. If you use your flash frequently, i.e. daily, there's no reason to use expensive LSD NiMHs. You will do just as well with cheaper generic NiMHs, like the ones they have in cordless phones.

You might want to look into NiZn batteries, which reached the market a few years ago. They cost about the same as ordinary NiMHs, and have same unfortunate self-discharge problem. But they're favored by photographers for one reason: unlike NiMH batteries, which are rated at 1.2V, NiZn batteries are rated for 1.6V -- which is even higher than alkaline's 1.5V.

Photographers say that the flash recharges much faster due to the higher voltage. Others, though, warn that the faster recharge rate may damage the flash.

Another possible advantage of NiZn batteries is that the higher initial voltage may also mean a longer useful life before recharging. That's because it'll take longer for it to drop from 1.6V to an unusable level than from 1.2V.

A warning: NiZn batteries need its own specialized charger. You can NOT charge them in a normal NiMH charger.

THIS is a quality post.

How about this? Does this mean it's an LSD batteries?

ng1404 wrote:You have good eyes for spotting the green bands/rings/stripes on the cells inside the Kodak SC1HR, versus the typical red banded cell inside the Kodak SC4, which many of us own and know are Kodak LSD 2100mAh cells.

Kodak has traditionally labeled their (only) AA LSD NiMH cells with yellow and red bands on white body.


Their non-LSD NiMH cells have been yellow and red bands on green body.


The yellow and green bands on white body is something we haven't seen before. Also note that the red "Kodak" logo is read from the (+) terminal on the green banded cells, which is another new design element.

It could just be a package redesign, a switch to a different supplier of LSD cells, or they're non-LSD cells. Judging from Wootalyzer's 12% inventory gauge, this deal will likely sell out before we find out.

llthel wrote:Sorry, didn't realize the almighty would be slumming here. Thanks for your insightful comments and showing us your mad cut and paste skills, I'l send you a diploma.

I've been burned by "sloppy" woot descriptions in the past.

Since it appears no one else could do it, you're welcome :o)

While we're at it. How long will a NiMH non LSD battery stay charged when not used?

Just trying to teach you to fish my brother :o)~

p.s. i'm looking forward to my diploma

The button is bouncing, meaning Woot is about to sell out. I was one of the first people to question whether these are LSD, yet I quickly bought 3 packs. And that was before you guys caught the color differences. My misgiving was merely based on the term "pre-charged." Anyway, those of you who are on the fence should definitely buy. That's because Woot has a history for making good on labeling errors and misleading descriptions, even when it's not their fault. After ordering, you can always cancel. And if Woot discovers a problem, they will send out an email offering the opportunity to cancel. Finally, if it arrives but doesn't match the description, Woot will almost always offer a refund with a free shipping label. Woot has always been very good to me.

llthel wrote:Hey, not sure how accurate it is, but if you look at the picture 4 of the batteries have a green stripe around the top and 8 of them look like they don't.

That may mean that only 4 of them are the LSD type of batteries and that 8 of them are NOT LSD (Which I think is consistent with what the different types of batteries look like).

Too much of a risk for me, I don't buy non-LSD batteries anymore, unless someone from WOOT can verify...

Well, I decided to buy one, looks like its about to sell out. Either way its a good deal for the three chargers. My first tech woot purchse!!!!!

drtofu101 wrote:How about this? Does this mean it's an LSD batteries?

Good find. So these green band cells bundled with the Kodak SC1HR should be low self-discharge (LSD) after all, but with a new cell wrapper design. The 2100mAh rating suggests they are the same as the old LSD cells -- rebadged GP Recyko, which are good cells. Sanyo (Eneloop, Duracell white-top) and Yuasa (Rayovac, Duracell black-top) regular LSD cells are generally rated at 2000mAh.

ng1404 wrote:Good find. So these green band cells bundled with the Kodak SC1HR should be low self-discharge (LSD) after all, but with a new cell wrapper design. The 2100mAh rating suggests they are the same as the old LSD cells -- rebadged GP Recyko, which are good cells. Sanyo (Eneloop, Duracell white-top) and Yuasa (Rayovac, Duracell black-top) regular LSD cells are generally rated at 2000mAh.

you (and the bouncing button) talked me into it! In for one - my remotes gobble AA batteries, so this should at least feed the beast. Was hoping for some AAA too ...

I have a set of these 2100 mAh batteries. They came pre-charged, and hold charge better than any other store-bought stuff (Duracell, Energizer, and certainly Rayovac).

I've used them in a Fenix LD20 and Fuji S1500 camera, and they've lasted longer per charge than the other brands of batteries, too. They seem a bit heavier than most NiMH batteries. I've also had them longer than the other brands.

I know nothing of the chargers, but would expect the "smart" moniker to mean they have at least voltage or temp monitoring.

For $20 it's very tempting, especially since I'm always hunting for AA batteries to use.

artwire wrote:you (and the bouncing button) talked me into it! In for one - my remotes gobble AA batteries, so this should at least feed the beast. Was hoping for some AAA too ...

That bouncing button does it every time!

jmp8910 wrote:That bouncing button does it every time!

Am I missing something what bouncing ball?

sdc100 wrote:Thanks for the graphs, and special appreciation for including the source links. I haven't read it yet but the graphs themselves contradict the experiences of most users. People with smart chargers like the LaCrosse or Maha PowerEx are able to measure actual capacity of NiMH batteries and an informal survey of discussion forums doesn't match the graphs. Many people report that their chargers report a real capacity that is higher than the labeled capacity. Are our LaCrosse and Maha chargers wrong?

I posted the graphs because mikepanic asked about using them in camera strobes, and this is a test that simulated such a situation.

The first graph is for pulse draining, where it has extremely high drain of 4 amp for a 5 sec (charge time of a flash), then the drain stops for 15 sec until the next draining cycle. This is to simulate using it on a strobe.

Then 2nd graph is of high drain situation of 3 amps. A 3 amp drain would run the battery dry in 40min.

There is also graph that shows their energy storage at 50mA. At such a low drain situation, most batteries meet their specs



I don't care much about how long they last in remote controls or while they are sitting there unused, but when they are heavily drained by the equipment they are on. I use my batteries in a 10w LED flashlight using 4AA batteries, which roughly equates to 2 amp current drain. My flashlight pretty much runs out near its 1 hr mark. I also use them in my underwater strobe and camera, and I have as much batteries being charged as I have in my devices, always being drained or being charged up.

rutherian wrote:I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to battery technology but how would these compare to lithium ion rechargables? Also, if these are first gen are the newer gen ones that much better?

Off the top of my head, the new Eneloops are only better in that they can last 1500 charge cycles as opposed to 1000 cycles of the older ones. I don't see it as a real world advantage for most people. If you charge your batteries once a week, 1000 charges means that the batteries will last 19 years! Do you really want to pay extra so that the batteries will last 50% longer at 29 years? And if you only charge them once a month like I do with my remote controls, it;kk take 83 years to do 1000 charges. In those years, 1) Better battery technology will arrive; 2) I'll lose the batteries; 3) I'll die.

lee827 wrote:Am I missing something what bouncing ball?

It's the glowing and pulsating (not really bouncing) yellow "I wwwwaaaaannnntttt one" button. It gets more energized when supplies are low. Hard to resist its siren song... buy me... buy me...

artwire wrote:It's the glowing and pulsating (not really bouncing) yellow "I wwwwaaaaannnntttt one" button. It gets more energized when supplies are low. Hard to resist its siren song... buy me... buy me...

They must have a lot b/c LAST CALL (via Twitter) was 2 hours ago.